I thought Christians are to be discerning. I thought Christians are filled with Holy Spirit. I thought the Holy Spirit is their teacher and guide. I thought the Bible gives the Christian everything they need know concerning life and godliness.

How is it then that no one, NO ONE, not one single person ever suggested that I was not a real Christian until I openly said I was an agnostic? For 33 years I was active in the Christian church. I prayed ,read my Bible, witnessed, tithed, attended public worship services, and tried to pattern my life according to the teachings of the Bible. I sacrificed my life for the cause of the gospel. I pastored Churches in 3 states, willingly accepting poverty wages so that congregations could have a full-time pastor.

A pastor on Facebook recently commented that he could discern the true Christian from the false Christian.  I replied that I did not believe he had any such gift at all.  I told him my family and I could put on our Sunday best and come to his Church, I could preach for the Church, and EVERYONE would think we are a wonderful Christian family.  Perhaps my older children could come along with us and bring their guitars. We could lead the Church is a divine, inspiring time of Praise and Worship.  I bet people would even remark that they “felt” God’s presence and  that our family was a wonderful Christian family; a godly example of how a family should be.

The fact is that the reason people say I never was a Christian is so that they might feel good about the matter. By saying I was never a Christian allows them to ignore the glaring truth that they have no discernment, that the Holy Spirit did not warn them I was a sheep in wolf clothing, and that all the discernment tools they have been taught were of no avail.

It is easy now to say I never was a Christian. Why is it no one spotted my deception while I was their pastor?

Here’s the truth, like it or not. I was a Christian and now I am not. I don’t care how you square this with your theology, you know, and I know, that I was a true-blue, washed in the blood, sanctified, Holy Ghost filled, Bible believing ,sin hating, Christian.

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1. The Difficulty with Having Christian Friends
2. Why You Can Never Win in a Theological Discussion with an Evangelical Christian
3. Understanding Christian Fundamentalism Part 1
4. No Such Thing As A Former Christian
5. The Mystical, Mythical Jesus Part 2

They have watched my life slowly drift leftward. They have watched me become worldly. They have watched me become a liberal that voted for a negro.

And now………I have lost my faith in God altogether.

I have forsaken all that matters.

After all, only one life, twill soon be past, only what’s done for Christ will last.

I am sure they wish I had gotten help.

I did.

Just not the help they wanted me to get.

I started blogging about my journey.  This put me in contact with other people who were on, or had been on, the same journey as me. I found people who understood, people I could relate to. Wow, there really are people who understand what I am going through. I hope now that I can be a help to others, the same way other people were a help to me when I needed it the most. In many ways this blog saved me. Thanks be to the blog.

18 months ago, for the first time in my life, I saw a counselor. Twice a month I see Doctor D. He’s a liberal, a progressive, a kindred spirit. He has helped me in more ways than I can count. It was hard for me to get up enough courage to see him and harder still to speak openly with him about my life.

I found new authors to read. Authors like Bart Ehrman. I found new magazines to subscribe to. I found books and magazines that challenged my worldview and forced me to reexamine my beliefs about God, the Bible, and the afterlife.

I have indeed been helped.

Thank you.

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1. What Should We Do About Bruce?
2. Added the My Journey Series Link
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4. The Progressive Populist
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They applaud me for standing up.

They wish they had the courage they think I have.

If they only knew…..

I am not as brave as they think I am.

I am not as courageous as they think I am.

I have days like today where I want to crawl into the rabbit hole and be forgotten by foe and friend.

I brought this on…….I have no one to blame but myself.

I could have stayed in the closet.

I could have lived a lie.

Knowing what I know now I don’t condemn anyone for pretending.

Better to be a Christian in name only, wait that’s what most Christians are anyway.

Why couldn’t I have just been an unbelieving preacher?

No one would have been the wiser.

No God to worry about, just people to fool.

That’s easy. Any preacher worth his salt can fool a congregation.

I was a Christian for most of my life.

Living a lie should have come easy for me.

But it didn’t.

Few people give me credit for being honest.

Would they have rather I lived a lie?

Maybe.

It would have made their life easier.

No explaining what happened to the pastor,father, husband, son-in-law, uncle or cousin named Bruce.

I am sorry I have become a problem to explain.

I am sorry my life makes people feel uncomfortable.

You see living openly and authentically matters to me.

When I go to bed at night I want to know that I have been honest with all those I came in contact with.

That’s why I can’t be silent about my agnosticism.

It is who I am.

I am not going to pretend there is a God.

I am not going to pretend I love Jesus or that I go to Church.

I don’t.

Love me, hate me, it is who I am.

I am sorry people are disappointed with me

I am sorry people are worried about my soul.

I know…….they want me to come back to Jesus.

I know….they just want things to be the way they were.

I can’t.

I won’t.

How could I ever live with myself if I stopped living my life authentically?

Do with me what you will.

I am who I am.

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1. The Difficulty with Having Christian Friends
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The problem with American civil religion is that it reduces faith to a particular brand of nationalism, which is precisely the opposite of the message preached by Jesus and the prophets of the Hebrew Bible. By ignoring passages about social justice and community and highlighting appeals to individual liberties, Deuteronomistic theology, the Exodus, and conquest narratives, Beck attempted to weave together a generic, nationalistic religion that he hopes will appeal to the lowest common denominator of both faith and politics – personal ‘salvation’ via individual liberties – and overlook the more pervasive themes of social justice, equality, and community – which all people of faith are called to do! We are called to live together in community together as one body, not as rugged individuals.

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Nate Beeler, Artist

HT: AZspot

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But, as I knew before I became ill, there are some people for whom this explanation is unsatisfying. To them, a rodent carcinoma really is a dedicated, conscious agent—a slow-acting suicide-murderer—on a consecrated mission from heaven. You haven’t lived, if I can put it like this, until you have read contributions such as this on the Web sites of the faithful:

Who else feels Christopher Hitchens getting terminal throat cancer [sic] was God’s revenge for him using his voice to blaspheme him? Atheists like to ignore FACTS. They like to act like everything is a “coincidence”. Really? It’s just a “coincidence” [that] out of any part of his body, Christopher Hitchens got cancer in the one part of his body he used for blasphemy? Yea, keep believing that Atheists. He’s going to writhe in agony and pain and wither away to nothing and then die a horrible agonizing death, and THEN comes the real fun, when he’s sent to HELLFIRE forever to be tortured and set afire.

There are numerous passages in holy scripture and religious tradition that for centuries made this kind of gloating into a mainstream belief. Long before it concerned me particularly I had understood the obvious objections. First, which mere primate is so damn sure that he can know the mind of god? Second, would this anonymous author want his views to be read by my unoffending children, who are also being given a hard time in their way, and by the same god? Third, why not a thunderbolt for yours truly, or something similarly awe-inspiring? The vengeful deity has a sadly depleted arsenal if all he can think of is exactly the cancer that my age and former “lifestyle” would suggest that I got. Fourth, why cancer at all? Almost all men get cancer of the prostate if they live long enough: it’s an undignified thing but quite evenly distributed among saints and sinners, believers and unbelievers. If you maintain that god awards the appropriate cancers, you must also account for the numbers of infants who contract leukemia. Devout persons have died young and in pain. Bertrand Russell and Voltaire, by contrast, remained spry until the end, as many psychopathic criminals and tyrants have also done. These visitations, then, seem awfully random. While my so far uncancerous throat, let me rush to assure my Christian correspondent above, is not at all the only organ with which I have blasphemed …And even if my voice goes before I do, I shall continue to write polemics against religious delusions, at least until it’s hello darkness my old friend. In which case, why not cancer of the brain? As a terrified, half-aware imbecile, I might even scream for a priest at the close of business, though I hereby state while I am still lucid that the entity thus humiliating itself would not in fact be “me.” (Bear this in mind, in case of any later rumors or fabrications.)

The absorbing fact about being mortally sick is that you spend a good deal of time preparing yourself to die with some modicum of stoicism (and provision for loved ones), while being simultaneously and highly interested in the business of survival. This is a distinctly bizarre way of “living”—lawyers in the morning and doctors in the afternoon—and means that one has to exist even more than usual in a double frame of mind. The same is true, it seems, of those who pray for me. And most of these are just as “religious” as the chap who wants me to be tortured in the here and now—which I will be even if I eventually recover—and then tortured forever into the bargain if I don’t recover or, presumably and ultimately, even if I do…

You can read the entire article here.

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5. Another Day

The Dove Outreach Center is planning a Qur’an burning on 9/11. Great. They are enjoying the freedom this country affords them.  Like it or not people are free to be assholes as long as their constitutionally protected speech doesn’t turn into violent acts.

That said, law enforcement officials would be foolish to wait until a group’s actions turn violent before they pay attention to them. I was pleased to see in the site log that the FBI and the Gainesville Police Department checked out my my post on the Qur’an burning and my post on the Church’s racist youtube video.

Thank you for watching out for all of us.

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I have spent recent days trading emails with Christian family members and friends. Some of them don’t like that I have made them a part of what I write about on this blog. It seems that want me to sanitize or excise their part of  the storyline.

What I write makes them uncomfortable. (even though I never mention them by name) They disagree with my take on matters, and since they are fundamentalists there can be no doubt as to who is right.

All I know is that I have experienced what I have experienced. I saw what I saw.  I heard what I heard. I know that perception is reality.  I know I could be wrong or my view could be skewed. I am well aware of my frailties.

As I talked with several of my children about this the other day I realized that my experiences are not theirs. They see some things differently than I do

Most of the emails I have answered this week have come from younger members of the family. I am 12-25 years older than them. They have difficulty understanding some things because they haven’t experienced the same things I have.  If I told them that a noted member of the family physically assaulted a family member years ago they would not believe I was telling the truth. From their vantage point such a thing could not have happened. But it did. I was there when It happened. 1983 was the year.

Part of the problem is that we only see some of our extended family once every year or two. They no longer know us and we no longer know them. When we are together we rarely make any attempt to know each other any better. (and I am just as guilty as they are) Discussions are perfunctory and polite. Even with my wife’s parents, we only seen them about 4 times a year. My wife talks to them on the phone every week, but we know very little about their day to day life and they know very little about ours.

Every once in awhile something major happens. There is a blow-up. An “event”. Since we don’t see our extended family very often the “events” become more prominent in our minds. We tend to then judge them by the “event” rather than by the totality of their lives.

I have been married 32 years. Our marriage is far from perfect.  Believe me , we have had some “events”. We have had some same time, next year “events”. But, we don’t judge one another by the “events” in our lives. Why? Because we have a 32 year history with each other. When the “event” is judged in the context of our 32 year history it looks very different than it does when we only have a limited history with someone.

This blog puts me in somewhat of a difficult place with family. They can come to here and read everything I have written.  They assume , that once they have read my blog, they can then “know me”. They then feel they have the right to make judgments about me, about my spiritual or emotional state, or the things I believe. At best, this blog is a partial picture of who and what I am. Readers only see what I let them see.

What’s interesting is that a lot of people who react negatively to me do so based on “reading” my blog. Yet, when I check the site logs to see what they  actually read I often find out they actually only read a few blog posts. Even after I point them to the personal section of my blog many of them never bother to take the time to read the posts in that category. In other words, they are staying true to the fundamentalist credo….”My mind is made up, don’t confuse with the facts.”  As the one fundamentalist preacher told me “now we know the REAL Bruce Gerencser.” No you don’t.

I refuse to surrender the storyline of my life. It’s my life. To the degree that someone is a part of my life they are going to be a part of my storyline. Warning: Never be friends with a writer.    The same could be said of a boyfriend of Taylor Swift getting upset that she wrote a song  about him after they broke up. Dude….she’s a song writer and that’s what song writer’s do.

I write.

That’s what I do.

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2. What Should We Do About Bruce?
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You want to know who the biggest hypocrite in the world is? The biggest hypocrite in the world is the person who believes in the death penalty for murderers and not for homosexuals. Hypocrite. The same God who instituted the death penalty for murderers is the same God who instituted the death penalty for rapists and for homosexuals – sodomites, queers! That’s what it was instituted for, okay? That’s God, he hasn’t changed. Oh, God doesn’t feel that way in the New Testament … God never “felt” anything about it, he commanded it and said they should be taken out and killed.

You know why God wanted the sodomites in the Old Testament to be killed? You know why every good king of Israel, the Bible says they got rid of the sodomites in the land? You know, the good kings that came after the bad kings who had allowed the sodomites to infest their land, they had infiltrated … King Asa got the sodomites out of the land, Jehoshaphat exterminated the sodomites that were left from the days of his father, Asa. Why? Because the sodomites are infectious, that’s why. Because they’re not reproducers, that goes without saying, they’re recruiters.

How are they multiplying? Do you not see that they’re multiplying? Are you that blind? Have you noticed that there’s more than there were last year and the year before, and the year before that? How are they multiplying? They’re reproducing right? No, here’s a biology lesson: they’re not reproducers, they’re recruiters! And you know who they’re after? Your children. Remember you dropped off your kids last week? That’s who they’re after. You drop them off as some daycare, you drop them off as some school somewhere, you don’t know where they’re at. I’ll tell you where they’re at: they’re being recruited by the sodomites. They’re being molested by the sodomites. I can tell you so many stories about people that I know being molested and recruited by the sodomites.

They recruit through rape. They recruit through molestation. They recruit through violation. They are infecting our society. They are spreading their disease. It’s not a physical disease, it’s a sin disease , it’s a wicked, filthy sin disease and it’s spreading on a rampage. Can’t you see that it’s spreading on a rampage? I mean, can you not see that? Can you not see that it’s just exploding in growth? Why? Because each sodomite recruits far more than one other sodomite because his whole life is about recruiting other sodomites, his whole life is about violating and hurting people and molesting ‘em.

So how many sodomites is one sodomite going to produce? A lot, and that’s why it’s just exploding. The only way to stop it, you say “how do we stop it?” … You want to know why sodomites are recruiting? Because they have no natural predators.

Hateful. Awful. And true to the Bible. Anderson is far more honest than most Christians when it comes to what the Bible says about homosexuality.

That’s why the Bible is the problem. Anderson is wrong because his view is morally repugnant, His view is offensive to all those who believe in decency and tolerance.

I am sure some of you think that anyone who believes like Stephen Anderson MUST be deranged and suffer from mental illness. The truth is there are a lot of people, sound in mind who believe exactly like Stephen Anderson. Check out The Anderson Family blog. They seem to be a normal, happy family, that just so happens to believe that homosexuals should be killed. 

Let this be a warning……….that “nice” Christian person that lives next door just might be another Stephen Anderson. True blue Bible believers. Nice, but deadly.

HT: Mike Tidmus

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the power to determine, adjudicate, or otherwise settle issues or disputes; jurisdiction; the right to control, command, or determine.

The foundation of Christian fundamentalism is the authority of the Bible. The Bible is central to everything the Christian fundamentalist believes and practices. The Bible is the infallible, inerrant, inspired Word of God. The Bible, from Genesis through Revelation is God’s words to man. Every word is truth.

Most Christian fundamentalists are literalists. While they allow for some spiritualizing of the Bible, for the most part they believe the Bible should be taken in literally. A common ditty that is oft repeated in Christian fundamentalist churches is God said it, I believe it, and that settles it for me. I never liked this little ditty so I changed it to say God said it and that settles it whether we believe it or not.

The children of Christian fundamentalists learn the B-I-B-L-E song at an early age. The B-I-B-L-E yes that’s the book for me. I stand alone on the Word of God, the B-I-B-L-E.  BIBLE! Children are taught that the Bible can be trusted and that every word in the Bible is true. (however they do seem to skip a lot of stuff in the Old Testament when teaching children in Sunday School. teacher why did God kill everyone on earth?)

Proof-texting is a common practice in Christian fundamentalist Churches. Every belief and every practice must be “proved” from the Bible. If a Christian fundamentalist can “prove” it from the Bible then a particular belief or practice is acceptable. (it is for this reason Creationism is so prominent in Christian fundamentalist churches)

When I was in High School, back when we were still fighting a war in Vietnam,  a girl that was dating a boy from the Church I attended came up to me in the school hallway and asked me “ _____________showed me from the Bible that is ok for us to fool around as long as we don’t go “all the way.” Do you think the Bible really says that?”  I told her in no uncertain terms that what her boyfriend was telling her was wrong. No wonder I couldn’t get laid in High School.  I was misinterpreting the Bible.

38 years later this story is a reminder to me of how Christian fundamentalists, armed with a literalist hermeneutic, can make the Bible say virtually anything. It should come as no surprise that Christian fundamentalists fight endlessly with each other over whose interpretation of the Bible is right.

Let me diagram for you the authority structure within the Christian fundamentalist Church:

• Bible Authority
• Pastoral Authority
• Husband/Father Authority

These three authorities dominate Church beliefs and practices. (there is also congregational authority and state authority but they are not as dominant as the three listed above)

The Christian fundamentalist believes all human authority is given to man by God.

The pastor (preacher, elder, bishop) is God’s man. He has authority over the Church because God gave him that authority. The pastor has been called by God to be head of the local Church. While the Christian fundamentalist will say that Christ is the head of the Church, the mouthpiece for Christ in the Church is the pastor.

The pastor decides what truth is. Through his preaching he establishes what is acceptable belief and practice.  His word is the law in the Church.

While most Christian fundamentalist churches have a congregational form of church government, the pastor is the decision maker and arbiter of all things. The pastor has to really screw up or screw someone else for him to lose his authoritative grip on the Church.

Most Christian fundamentalist churches have one pastor and a few deacons. Often, the pastor and deacons are in conflict over beliefs and practices. I have arbitrated a few knock-down fights between a pastor and the deacon board. Usually, the pastor wins these brawls, He is ,after all, the man of God. If the disagreement remains, Christian fundamentalist pastors will often try to get the dissenters off the deacon board. In some cases they are kicked out of the Church.

To go against the pastor is to go against God. The Bible says  in Hebrews 13:17, Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

The Bible teaches that church members are to obey the pastor and submit themselves to him. After all, he has been given the responsibility to watch over their soul.

Church members are often reminded that the Bible says  Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm. (1 Chronicles 16:22)

In other words don’t mess with Sasquatch, err I mean the pastor.

Lest you doubt that God is serious about this, remember the story of Elisha the children who mocked him:

So the waters were healed unto this day, according to the saying of Elisha which he spake. And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. (2 Kings 2:22-24)

Here are a few other Bible verses that bolster the notion of pastoral authority.

Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. (Hebrews 13:6)

Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. (1 Timothy 5:19)

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. (Acts 20:28)

Anyone who has grown up in the Christian fundamentalist Church has heard the phrase “pastoral authority” bandied about. “The pastor is exceeding his pastoral authority” or “the Church is rebelling against my pastoral authority.”

Pastoral authority is another way of saying “I am the boss.” Even in churches that attempt to correct the pastoral authority abuses by having a plurality of elders (pastors) there is always one elder that is the head honcho, the super elder. (also known as the teaching elder)

The pastor becomes the CEO of the Church. He becomes the power behind everything in the Church. His word is the law. He decides, people obey. After all………it’s in the Bible. People taught to unquestionably obey the Bible believe they should submit to the authority of the pastor no matter what. He is the man of God who speaks to the people of God.

The pastor’s sermons are treated as divine messages from God. Ask a Christian fundamentalist pastor how he gets his sermons and he will invariably say “from the Holy Spirit”. I preached thousands of sermons over 25 years I sincerely believed that my sermons were given directly to me by God. I could stand in the pulpit with great confidence and say “God says.”

Many Christian fundamentalist pastors are type A, driven narcissists. The Church becomes their Church. The Church becomes their little kingdom on earth.  The pastor rules and reigns with a rod of iron, disguised as a Bible. This is a recipe for abuse.

Some people have described many churches and pastors within the Christian fundamentalist movement as cultic. Sadly, I believe this is an accurate observation.

I could give story after story about how Bible authority and pastoral authority were used to dominate and control the lives of people.  ( read my story about being excommunicated from Community Baptist Church in Elmendorf , Texas)

Hundreds of NW Ohio Skeptics readers were abused in churches where the Bible was the law and the pastor was God. An hour of reading websites like exchristian.net will give up story after story about people abused in Christian fundamentalist Churches.

Narcissistic men, a literal interpretation of the Bible, and a belief in pastoral authority provide a perfect recipe for abuse. People are robbed of their individuality and their ability to make decisions for themselves. Church members will strenuously object to this assertion and there is little hope to convince them otherwise. They sincerely believe they are “free” when in reality they are in bondage. They are in bondage to the Bible and to men who wield the Bible as a club.

How do I know this? To put it quite simply, been there, done that.

In my next post I want to deal with the third authority in the Christian fundamentalist Church, the husband/father authority.

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1. Understanding Christian Fundamentalism Part 1
2. The Marks of Fundamentalism
3. The gods Have Clay Feet, A Few Thoughts About Pastors
4. Expectations
5. A Brilliant Example of a Pensacola Christian College Preacher

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-bxJOrSAgA

Is this Christianity?

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Baldwin writes:

The elections of 2008 (and the early elections of 2010) produced two significant phenomena: the “Ron Paul Revolution,” and the “Tea Party Movement.” And, mark it down: both of them will have profound effects upon the upcoming November elections–and upon the 2012 elections as well. Call them what you want, however, America doesn’t need another movement; it needs a genuine revolution.

The Tea Party movement, while still a force with which to be contended, has already been diluted and compromised. The primary elections plainly reveal the reality of this fact. The high spots so far are the defeats of Arlen Specter in Pennsylvania and Bob Bennett in Utah. The low spots so far are the reelection of John McCain in Arizona and the election of Dan Coats in Indiana.

John McCain’s election, in particular, demonstrates how many conservatives and “revolutionaries” still don’t get it. If any State in the union should have an up-close-and-personal look at what we are up against, it would be the people of Arizona. After all, they are on the front lines in the fight of one of the most important battles currently being waged in our country: illegal immigration. And John McCain is one of the worst offenders in terms of facilitating and encouraging this illegal invasion. Yet the people of Arizona reelected McCain to the US Senate. (It would interesting to know how many illegal aliens voted for McCain, would it not?)….

….Mark my words: Palin and Beck may see themselves as part of a conservative “movement,” but they want nothing to do with an old-fashioned, honest-to-God, Patrick Henry-style revolution. In fact, they are doing everything in their power to keep such a revolution from taking place….

…Fox News is not “fair and balanced.” It is as controlled and manipulated as any other media news network. The only thing it balances is the other networks’ infatuation with the Democrat Party, by promoting Republican candidates and ideas. What it does not do is educate and inform the American people with the truth as to what both major parties are doing to destroy our country. But remember, Fox News is owned by Keith Rupert Murdoch, the same man who helped finance Hillary Clinton’s campaign for the US Senate, and who is as much of a globalist as anyone in Washington, D.C., or New York City.

As an aside, and speaking of Hillary Rodham, I predict that she will replace Vice President Joe Biden BEFORE the 2012 elections. I’ve said that in private for many weeks, and now say it in this column–remember, you heard it here. The Clinton-Bush Crime Syndicate (CBCS) needs Hillary in the White House badly, and Obama has readily accepted a subservient role in the criminal affairs of CBCS (for very profitable reasons, no doubt). And with the CBCS bosses pretty much running things at the White House (they don’t worry about domestic or social issues, providing that these do not interfere with their international criminal activities), is it any wonder that Obama has already taken more vacations than most Presidents take during an entire term?

And it is the influence of globalists and neocons upon national and international politics that the likes of Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck simply do not get–or do not want to get. And because many Tea Partiers are so enamored with these two (and allow them to do much of their thinking for them), they remain clueless as well.

Ladies and gentlemen, America is in the throes of socialist and Marxist political upheaval. The curtain could fall at any time. The American people need to wake up to this truism: a “conservative” movement–even a conservative Tea Party movement–will not save us. The only thing that will save us is an old-fashioned State revolt…..

Baldwin ends his conspiracy laden missive with an all-to-common right-wing Christian preacher benediction:

*If you appreciate this column and want to help me distribute these editorial opinions to an ever-growing audience, donations may now be made by credit card, check, or Money Order.

As Gary Burbank on 700WLW would say when doing his Deuteronomy Skaggs from the Little Radio Church of the White Winged Gospel Truth bit:

So reach into them jeans and pull out some greens
Don’t make me holler, don’t make me shout
Turn them pockets inside out
Keep them cards and letters coming

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4. What a Dog and Three Cats Taught Me About America

• The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints(Mormons)
• Jehovah’s Witnesses
• United Pentecostal Church (Oneness Pentecostalism)
• Unitarian Universalist Association
• Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS)/Community of Christ
• Christian Science
• Unity School of Christianity
• International Church of Christ
• The Way International
• Church of Scientology International
• Baha’i Faith
• Nation of Islam

While Catholicism is not on the list, Baptists are renowned for their hatred of Catholics. Many Baptist pastors consider Catholicism  a cult.

What about Judaism?  As always, God’s chosen people get a free pass. After all, the antichrist, the beast, and the false prophet have to have somebody to slaughter during the tribulation.

HT: Right Wing Watch

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5. The Religion vs Christianity Debate

Judge for yourself.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_i0J7LH0CA

HT: Christian Nightmares

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www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeNu4LwZTPQ

Let me summarize Schaap’s view:

God made women to sexually tempt men. Men are hapless, helpless beings who, at the slightest show of any skin by a women, get an immediate erection and do irresponsible things like lust, commit adultery and fornication, sleep with their secretary (As Jack Hyles did) and sleep with girls in the youth group and women in the Church. (As David Hyles did).  Whose fault is this? THE WOMEN.

Here is, by the way, a list of men associated with Jack Hyles, Jack Schaap and Hyles Anderson College, who have been accused, charged, and convicted of sexual crimes.No Independent Baptist should utter ONE word about the Catholic priest sex scandal until they clean up their own cesspool of vile behaviour.

HT: Christian Nightmares

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Could Glenn Beck be the Antichrist? From my study of end-times prophecy I think it could be true!!! Millions follow after him. Millions of Christians ignore his Mormon faith and embrace him as brother.  He promises a New America, A restored America.  Stay tuned, he could be The One!

Will you stand with me brothers and sisters and refuse the mark of the beast? Refuse to drink the Tea of damnation?

Choose you this day whom you will serve…….Glenn Beck or Freedom.

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Have you ever been just sitting there and all of a sudden you feel like doing something nice for someone you care for? THAT’S GOD talking to you through the Holy Spirit.

Have you ever been down and out and nobody seems to be around for you to talk to? THAT’S GOD wanting you to talk to Him.

Have you ever received something wonderful that you didn’t even ask for, like money in the mail, a debt that had mysteriously been cleared, or a coupon to a department store where you had just seen something you needed, but couldn’t afford? THAT’S GOD knowing the desires of your heart.

Have you ever been in a situation and you had no clue how it was going to get better, how the hurting would stop, how the pain would ease, but now you look back on it . .. THAT’S GOD passing us through tribulation to see a brighter day.

You see it really is all about God, right?

Here’s to hoping the God who knows the desires of my heart heard my utterance about me wanting the Reds to win the World Series. Oh, and the Bengals winning the Super Bowl. Oh, and why God is in the desire granting mood, how about a pain-free night.

God and I are not on talking terms. He doesn’t talk to me and I don’t talk to him. The Reds will win the World Series if they play better than everyone else, Same for the Bengals and the Super Bowl. Concerning a pain-free night. It not going to happen, ever. So I thank the pharmaceutical company for narcotics. I give credit to whom credit is due. God? He’s on vacation.

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Our culture thinks you are a “loser” if you don’t go to college…parents are embarrassed if their kids don’t go…we borrow tons of money so that our kids can run off to Sodom & Gomorrah with a credit card?  What for?  Sure, there are careers that require a higher education, but let’s face it – most of us don’t use the degree we earned. 

So – why all the emphasis on college?

One brilliant commenter replied:

I totally agree. Christian children should be encouraged NOT to go to college. The culture of drinking etc etc is overwhelming for most teens.

I believe the Mormons have it right. Right after high school, get out of the country for 2 years. Spend 2 years in missions. Learn a new language and culture. Tell others about Christ. Learn about giving and forget about taking.

After 2 years, come back to the US with a new appreciation and maturity and a real accomplishment on your resume!

This little exchange illustrates an opinion that is very common in fundamentalist Christian circles.

I subscribed to this way of thinking for many years. Keep your children away from the world at all costs, the thinking goes. The result?  Children who are not prepared to face the real world, a world where Mom and Dad aren’t there to protect them .

College is a good place for children to learn about the world. Steve Noble seems to think there is no alternative to sending kids off to live in a dorm. Has he ever heard of commuting?  My youngest daughter will graduate from NW State Community College in the spring. She commutes. She plans to go to a public university, There are four of them within 50 miles of our home. There are also several private colleges within driving distance of our home.

I too have my concerns to about a child of mine living in a dorm. Is the answer to tell my daughter not to get an education? Of course not. We found a middle ground, a way that she can get a good education, and we as her parents can feel good about her safety.

As far as drinking, sex, pornography, homosexuality, and all the other things fundamentalist parents fear about private university dorm living………I was exposed to all these things at a fundamentalist Baptist college. Every year students were expelled for “sinful” behavior.

Message to fundamentalist parents:

Your children are not safe anywhere.  You need to teach them to navigate the rough seas of the real world. Part of the lesson is allowing them to be exposed to the world. I understand your fears.  Every time my children get behind the wheel of a car, go out on a date, or go somewhere where I don’t have control, I am anxious and concerned. But, I also know my kids have got a good head on their shoulders. They are not easily led astray. And they know……….Dad is there when they need him.  In their lingo…….I’ve got their back.

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The fundamentalist Christian is certain the bible is THE truth, thus everything the Bible teaches is to be believed and theoretically obeyed.

This view can easily, and readily be dispatched by showing that that no Christian actually believes and practices all of the Bible. I repeat, NO CHRISTIAN. When challenged on the truth of this the Christian will attempt to explain away their inconsistencies by appealing to “no one is perfect” or some nifty hermeneutical trickery that allows them to not practice all of the Bible.

Part of my extended family are know-it-all Christians.  They have the King James Bible. which is the inerrant, inspired Word of God. It tells them everything they need to know.

Let me illustrate this with a short discussion that took place on Facebook.

A member of my family posted:

“I don’t understand religion when it gets to the point where the beyond commands the present, because then the present doesn’t have any sense. In Spain it is a big fear, a bummer, our mortality. Myself, i really need to know and face mortality: i am this, i am me, i am now. The rest, I don’t know. and that’s the point -… to be okay with not knowing.” Javier Bardem in Elle Magazine

One member of my family said:

That dude was awesome in No Country For Old Men!

And then the fun begins

The Fundamentalist Baptist Evangelist’s wife said:

That is one of the saddest statements I have ever read. You CAN KNOW…its all in the Bible!”

The agnostic, former Baptist Preacher of 25 years said :

Arrogance says “I know”. Wisdom and humility says “I don’t know.” Accepting the Bible as truth is a “faith” claim, which is fine for those who want to believe the Bible. No one can know that what the Bibles says is true. They believe it… is true by faith. No one can “prove” there is a God, a heaven, or a hell. (empirical proof)

That’s why I like this quote. It encourages us to focus on the here and now and reminds us that we are mortal and we are going to die. To paraphrase the one Christian ditty “only one life twill soon be past only what’s done today will matter.” Live life to the fullest today. It is the only one you have.

Then the I am going to be a preacher  wife someday extended family member said:

It must be tuff  (sic) to be against God and the Bible.Not a place I would want to be.

This little Facebook discussion aptly describes the current state of affairs for my wife and I with my wife’s extended family. They have destroyed the family relationship because they can not see beyond their fundamentalist religious beliefs. In their world everyone is either on their side or an enemy of God. Either you believe like they do or you are wrong, and most likely headed for hell.

Keep in mind the the evangelist’s wife and the future preacher  wife have NEVER talked to my wife or I about the reasons why we left the Christian faith. Never. Not one time.  In fact, 2 years after THE letter, not one family member on my wife’s side has said one word to us about our leaving the Christian faith. No attempt has been made to understand our decision.

Instead, they gossip behind our backs. They scour Facebook for offending comments and posts and then share them with my wife’s elderly parents. (who are not on the internet)  They “pray” for us but that’s just another way of  saying “we know you are wrong and we are asking God to help you see the light.”

What my wife’s family has shown is that the only thing that matters to them, the only reason for their existence is Jesus.  Relationships that don’t lead to Jesus don’t matter.  In other words. we have become collateral damage in their quest to be true to Jesus.

Yet, our extended family will be surprised when they don’t see us for the holidays. I am sure my in-laws will make some excuse for us. After all, having someone in the family who is sick makes for a great excuse. “They wanted to be here but Bruce has been so sick lately”. The real truth is, we are tired of everything being about religion and for me personally the ugliness of it does  make me sick. The undercurrent, the overtones, and subtle one liners all add to the difficulties I already have.

The future preacher wife suggests that I am in a tuff (sic) place:

• Against God
• Against the Bible

My wife’s family believes that their version of God it THE God and that their interpretation of the Bible is THE truth. It is their version of God we reject and their interpretation of the Bible we reject.

Yet, they are almost as atheistic as we are.

Richard Dawkins said:

An atheist is just somebody who feels about Yahweh the way any decent Christian feels about Thor or Baal or the golden calf. As has been said before, we are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.

My wife’s family would not be satisfied if we became moderate, progressive or liberal Christians.  They would not be satisfied if we became Hindu or worshipped one of the many other Gods. No, it is their God and their truth or nothing.

The tale I write here is not unique.  Most people who defect from fundamentalist Christianity go through similar problems. When you are a part of a family that is so vested in one truth it is hard for any defection to amiable.

One truth that seems to evade many fundamentalist Christian family members is that we don’t NEED them in our lives. We want to have a relationship with them. We want to know how their lives are, how their kids are. We want to have a relationship that transcends religion.  We want to……….but we don’t need to. At this point in our lives we still work real hard to keep a relationship with my wife’s parents. That’s important. It is very hard to do sometimes, but we keep working at it.

The rest of the family? Keep your religion to yourself. If you can’t or won’t do that then we are not interested in have any further relationship with you. We can become like so many other families fractured by narrow-minded religious bigotry………see you at funerals.

One thing for certain we will all share as family members whether we want to or not……..death. 25 years from now, and 50 predictions gone wrong about the end of the world later, many family members will be but distant memories from the past. It will be too bad that conflict over religion  will dominate the memories. I want to be remembered for more than just the “preacher who became an atheist and ruined his life.” Yes, I was a preacher, and a good one, for a long, long time. Yes, I am no longer a preacher. Yes, I don’t believe in the Christian god. Yes, I don’t believe the Christian Bible to be truth.

And Yes, I am a decent, kind person who loves his wife of 32 years, his six children and his grandchildren. I am a person that has much to offer the the world and the family.  It grieves me greatly that my life has been reduced by some to whether or not I believe a certain, narrow, and defined set of religious propositions.

We can’t do anything to change this. We don’t evangelize and the other side of the family can’t not evangelize. They are under orders from God to hunt down the enemy and slay them. (metaphorically speaking) All my wife and I want to do is have some form of family relationship where religion is not front and center in everything.

I should make it clear that  I do not speak for my children, any  of them.  They are free to be who and whatever they want to be. They are free to have whatever relationship they want to have with family. I am happy if they are happy. I do speak for my wife to the degree that we commonly share the feelings and beliefs I have expressed in this post. She too is free, free to be who and whatever she wants to be.  If she is happy, I am happy.

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Count me as one those agnostics that still finds wonder in the natural world around him. The beauty is astounding.

The gourds have been harvested. Now what do we do? 

Been trying to catch this guy all summer. Not a perfect picture but I’ll take it. Perfect is having set the shutter speed at a faster speed so the wings would have been captured perfectly. He surprised me, so I just shot. Took three quick frames. This is the only one that was not a blur.

Thank you for posing.

And you too!

And last, thank you for holding still so I could take  your picture during the few moments you will be alive on this earth.

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The St Louis Dispatch reports:

Cardinals first baseman and three-time NL Most Valuable Player Albert Pujols will be among several honorees at a highly publicized and potentially politically charged Saturday morning rally expected to draw more than 20,000 to The Mall.

Organized by Fox News talk show host Glenn Beck and featuring former Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, the “Restoring Honor” rally is scheduled to take place at the base of the Lincoln Memorial on the 47th anniversary of Dr. Martin Luther King’s “I Have a Dream” speech.

Beck, who met Pujols at Busch Stadium before a June appearance at Chaifetz Arena, is promoting the event as an apolitical celebration of the First Amendment and the Special Operations Warrior Foundation. Cardinals manager Tony La Russa, scheduled to introduce Pujols, insisted Thursday that he and Pujols are attending only after receiving assurances that the event is not a thinly disguised political rally.

Some liberal critics have portrayed the three-hour event as a platform for the conservative Tea Party movement.

“I made it clear when we were approached: I said, ‘If it’s political, I wouldn’t even approach Albert with it.’ I don’t want to be there if it’s political,” La Russa said….

“I made the point several times: What is this about?” La Russa said Thursday, noting an understanding that invitations were ‘sent out across party lines, different disciplines, all kinds of stuff.

“I don’t know who’s going to be there, who’s going to accept it. But the gist of the day is not political. I think it’s a really good concept, actually.”

Perhaps someone can provide a list of liberals, progressives, moderate Republicans and Democrats that will be a part of this rally? Oh wait, I have it right here…….a blank sheet of paper.

Beck’s rally is a political rally. It benefits the tea party. Time for Beck and others involved with this to be honest about what this rally is all about.

Perhaps John Stewart can explain it best. Enjoy.

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The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

WHAT DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND?

And lest you forget, the First Amendment to the Constitution says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

WHAT DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND?

Or is it you do understand and it scares the hell out of you?

Fear the Muslim.

Fear the Atheist.

Your fear exposes you as a bigot.

You pride yourself as an American Patriot.

Hypocrite.

No you are not.

If you can’t uphold the Constitution of the United States because it makes you fearful or uncomfortable what does that say about your Patriotic commitment?

Supposedly we are a people who believe in liberty and freedom.

Yet, it seems some self-described American Patriots only want liberty and freedom to extend to some, to their own kind.

Evidently Muslims and Atheists do not deserve the same treatment and protection under the Constitution.

The number of unbelievers are increasing in America. Some day, maybe in the lifetime of my great grandchildren, the none’s will become the dominant “religion” in the America.

The descendents of those clamoring to know President Obama’s religious affiliation better hope, in that day , that the none’s do not treat the Constitution in the same manner as religious zealots do today.  If they do, perhaps they will demand that the President declare his non-religion.

For the sake of our children’s children we MUST continue to battle those who insist of turning this great Country into a theocracy. We MUST continue to work towards a true secular state. The Constitution gives us the foundation for such a state if we will insist that it be followed.

I dream of a day when a President is inaugurated in America and she forgoes the hand on the Bible and the “so help me God” acts of religious fidelity. It will be a great day when we can just be Americans.

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Why has President Barack Obama on at least two occasions told specifically Muslim audiences that America is a nation of—among other things—“non-believers”?…

The Census Bureau’s official Statistical Abstract of the United States says a miniscule 0.7 percent of American adults—or 1,621,000 out of 228,182,000–are atheists.

If you accept the Pew Hispanic Center’s March 2005 estimate that there were 11 million illegal aliens in the United States back then—and assume for the sake of argument there are still roughly that many today after another half decade of unsecured borders—then a person randomly passing you on an American street is about seven times more likely to be a foreign national illegally residing here than an atheist.

If representation in the resident population is the measure, then it is more plausible to say America is a nation of foreigners than to say America is a nation of non-believers.

Yet President Obama has virtually made a mantra of saying that Americans are, among other things, “non-believers.”….

In his inaugural address, Obama said, “We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus and non-believers.” ….

A week after his inauguration (Obama said)….I have come to understand is that regardless of your faith—and America is a country of Muslims, Jews, Christians and non-believers—regardless of your faith, people have certain common hopes and common dreams.”….

On Nov. 7, 2009, four days before Veterans Day and two days after U.S. Army psychiatrist and radical Muslim terrorist Nidal Malik Hasan murdered 12 U.S. troops and one civilian and wounded 29 others at Fort Hood, Obama took pains to publicly state his belief that the American veterans who fought in Muslim territory at Ramadi, Iraq, and Kandahar, Afghanistan, included “non-believers.”

“In tribute to those who fell at Ft. Hood, I’ve ordered flags flying over the White House and other federal buildings to be lowered to half-staff from now until Veterans Day next Wednesday,” Obama said in his weekly address. “Veterans Day is our chance to honor those Americans who’ve served on battlefields…of every race, faith and station. They are Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus and nonbelievers.”

On Aug. 13, hosting an Iftar dinner for Muslim guests at the White House, Obama not only suggested that he approved the building of a mosque next door to Ground Zero in New York, but he also said this: “We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus—and non-believers. “ …

In America, we have no established religion, and the First Amendment guarantees its free exercise, but we are and always have been an expressly God-fearing nation…..

The Census Bureau does not ask Americans their denomination, but relies on the American Religious Identification Survey, which interviewed 54,461 American adults in 2008, to estimate the nation’s religious demographics. ARIS discovered that 76 percent of Americans said they were Christians, 1.2 percent said they were Jewish and 0.6 percent said they were Muslims.

Fifteen percent said they did not affiliate with a religion—which is not an indicator of disbelief in God. Only 0.9 percent said they were agnostic and only 0.7 percent said they were atheists.

Obama’s insistence on giving the 0.7 percent atheist population equivalent status in his public declarations to America’s Christians and Jews, whose religious tradition is central to our nation’s worldview and heritage, may help promote non-belief in the United States, but it surely does not promote the American cause in the Islamic world—where our radical Muslim enemies, starting with al-Qaida, falsely claim Americans are infidels.

Certainly, Obama is not purposefully seeking to diminish America’s standing in the Muslim world. But his words—on their face—seek to diminish God’s standing in America.

It seems the author of this article, Terence Jeffrey, wants to keep hidden that we are have people in America who do not believe in a deity. He fears if the Muslim world knows we have unbelievers in our midst it will cause them to look on us poorly.

I can only conclude that the next time America is attacked by Muslim radicals Terence Jeffrey will certainly point to Obama’s inclusive  policy and subtly suggest that unbelievers, atheists and agnostics are to blame for the attack.

Jeffrey misrepresents the 2008 American Religious Identification Survey. The chart is posted below. I will leave it to each reader to draw their own conclusions about the numbers but I have concluded that Jeffrey has grossly underreported the number of unbelievers and the number of non-Christians in this country. From 1990 to 2008 the number of none’s (no religion specified) increased by 20 million people.The Christian Church only increased by 22 million during the same period of time. Looks like the atheist evangelistic program is working. Or, just maybe we don’t need to evangelize at all…..the Christian Church will do all the work for us.

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www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3WQ0oLntdI

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We have two competing world views here and there is no way that we can reach across the aisle — one is going to have to win…We are either going to go down the socialist road and become like western Europe and create, I guess really a godless society, an atheist society. Or we’re going to continue down the other pathway where we believe in freedom of speech, individual liberties and that we remain a Christian nation. So we’re going to have to win that battle, we’re going to have to solve that argument before we can once again reach across and work together on things.

According to Fleming Americans face two choices concerning what type of country they want.

A socialist nation which is really  a godless,atheist society

Or

A Christian nation where people believe in freedom of speech and individual liberties

In other words socialists, atheists, and the godless (yeah I know atheists ARE godless but Fleming must not know that) don’t  believe in freedom of speech and individual liberties.

Fleming should immediately be required to pee in a cup.

He is surely is on drugs. No one in their right mind would make such foolish statements as Fleming makes in the quote above. Of course Fleming is up for reelection so he is likely to say anything. Got to energize the lunatic base,

It is the godless who are more likely to advocate for freedom of speech and individual rights. In this Christian nation of ours, Christians like Fleming work to suppress freedom of speech and individual rights for gays and Muslims. Christians like Fleming treat atheists like second class citizens. Fleming is an advocate of Christian theocracy, a form of government in which only Christians are first class citizens.

Fleming, a physician, is a Southern Baptist. He is a member of First Baptist Church in Minden, Louisiana.

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